With Ken Baldwin, Interview by Matt Casado
Ken Baldwin has been a fisherman for more than 30 years. His love for fishing grew from his father who worked as a Game Warden, which ensured that Ken spent much of his time in the outdoors while growing up. After high school he went to the University of Washington where he played football and majored in Communications. Being a much better fisherman than football player he figured it was more realistic to make a living chasing fish than chasing a football. He guides and photographs for the Rainbow Bay Resort, a fly-in, full-service hunting and fishing lodge in Bristol Bay, Alaska.
We caught up with Ken in Los Angeles where he’s busy putting the final touches on his upcoming outdoor television show, “Season on the Edge,” which airs on the Destination Channel.
We visited with Ken to learn what it takes to catch the wild rainbow trout that Ken targets in Alaska. These rainbows run up to fifteen pounds and follow the great runs of sockeye salmon up rivers with names like Kenai, Illiamna and Nushagak.
MC. How long have you been guiding in Alaska and how did you get started?
KB. This is my ninth year guiding in Alaska. My brother worked as a guide and he’s the one who got me my first job.
MC. In what part of Alaska do you guide?
KB. The Bristol Bay watershed in southwest Alaska, out of the Rainbow Bay Resort.
MC. And what species do you target?
KB. We target five species of salmon: kings, silvers, sockeyes, chums and pinks. We also go after rainbow trout, arctic char, dolly varden, grayling, pike and halibut.
MC. Which one’s the most fun?
KB. (laughs) The kings and the rainbows. We have folks who come specifically for the king salmon. They want just the kings. They want to catch them, fillet them and take them home. And that’s a very short season, two weeks, maybe a little more, starting in June. Then we have the folks who come strictly for the giant rainbows.
MC. Let’s talk about the rainbows. How do you target rainbows that follow the massive runs of sockeye salmon?
KB. Well, first off, there are three segments to a summer season of catching rainbows. One, we have the pre-salmon run. Then the actual salmon run comes, which is then followed by what we call the post-salmon run.
MC. So it’s all about the salmon.
KB. Right. Truth is it’s all about the salmon eggs. Salmon eggs make up the vast majority of the rainbow’s diet. At the beginning of the season the rainbows are skinny and hungry. By late September they’re fat and happy, and it’s the eggs that have made them fat and happy. By the end of the season they’ve had their fill and they become much more particular about presentation.
MC. Let’s talk about the beginning of the season.
KB. When the sockeye aren’t there you target the rainbows differently than when the sockeye are there. Like I said, they’ve just endured a long winter with not much to eat, so they’re hungry and aggressive.
MC. Now this is before the sockeye begin they’re trek up river?
KB. Right. There may be a few sockeye, but the major migration up river hasn’t happened yet. Now you can pretty much count on the sockeye showing up in numbers by July 4th, at least where we fish. Before that, obviously there aren’t any salmon eggs floating down river, so before the migration we target the rainbows with leech patterns, fry patterns and mouse patterns.
MC. Let’s talk equipment for a moment.
KB. Sure. For spin fishing we use a 9’6” rod with 10 lb. test monofilament line. We like the extra length because it allows for a better drift. My favorite is the Lamiglass, model G1367, which runs at around $170, but any well-built rod will do the job. It’s the length and heft that’s important. Any decent reel with 10 lb. test capacity is fine.
For fly fishing we outfit our clients with a TFO Clouser rod because it’s a good rod to throw weight. We’ll use a 6 weight, 9’ rod. The rod was designed by Bob Clouser to throw the Clouser minnow, which is a heavily weighted streamer. And any decent fly fishing reel with 6 weight capacity will do the job.
Now this isn’t traditional fly casting, it’s more like a “chuck and duck” thing. Just get that baby out there. The rod is relatively inexpensive, which is good for us because throughout a summer of fishing your rods are going to take a beating with a chance of breaking, so we leave our high-end rods at home.
These rainbows aren’t leader shy. We usually use about seven to eight feet of 10 lb. leader. No taper is needed.
MC. Okay, tell us about technique.
KB. With the leeches we usually swing them. We’ll cast directly across stream or slightly down and across, then let the leech swing its way downstream. If you fish for steelhead you know this technique quite well.
We’re slowly stripping back as the leech reaches its furthest downstream position. We don’t want to strip it back all the way. When the leech reaches the end of the swing we want to pause and let the leech swim in the water. The majority of strikes occur as the leech is sitting there undulating in the current.
MC. And the fry? Actually, why don’t we explain what fry is for our readers that might not be sure.
KB. Sure. Fry is baby salmon, about an inch long. They’re the eggs, incubating all winter, that hatch and become little, baby salmon. We fish the fry imitation almost always on a dead drift. We cast out a little upstream and let the fry drift down, just like a baby fish taken by the current.
MC. Between the three do you have a favorite? Does the client have a favorite?
KB. Well, the mouse takes more technique, so depending on ability, the clients can choose what they want to use. Now for me personally, I’m a bass fisherman at heart and I love to catch fish on top water, so throwing a mouse is the most fun.
MC. How so?
KB. The grab is tremendous, even explosive. You get a 30 inch rainbow, even an early season skinny one that suddenly grabs a three to four inch mouse skittering on top and man, it’s about as exciting as it gets.
MC. Talk a little about your technique with the mouse.
KB. We’ll cast it out, get it floating well, and then drift it back over open water, usually along the edges, using little tugs, short strips, anything that might imitate a mouse that suddenly finds itself in the water. Many times we’ll drift it back near a log, as if the mouse fell off the log into the water. If you’ve ever seen a small rodent fall into moving water they immediately start to scurry, usually upstream.My favorite imitation is the Morrish Mouse.
MC. During this part of the season, before the sockeye show up and you’re fishing with leeches, fry imitations and mouse patterns, how many fish can you expect to catch a day?
KB. Anywhere from 12 to 20 fish a day.
MC. That’s not a bad day of fishing.
KB. No it’s not, but compared to when the sockeye do show up it’s a below average day.
MC. What kind of numbers are we talking about after the sockeye show up?
KB. We’re talking about catching anywhere from 30 to 60 fish a day, with many in the 25 to 30 inch range. This is when we put away the leeches, fry imitations and mouse patterns and switch to egg patterns, almost exclusively.
Like I said, the rainbows are in a hurry to fatten up for a long winter. They’re zoned in on salmon eggs and any egg that comes down river they’ll hit it, bam, bam. Literally, they start gorging themselves. They go from an early season skinny rainbow to a late season fat football rainbow. Generally speaking, it’s about five weeks of really spectacular fishing.
MC. Tell us a little about your egg patterns.
KB. At this time of the season, when the rivers are loaded with sockeye, we’re using egg patterns, plastic beads, in various colors. Live eggs, dead eggs and fertilized eggs, they all have different colors and shades to them.
MC. I take it the rainbows aren’t too interested in anything but eggs at this time of the season.
KB. Right. Like I said, they gorge themselves on salmon eggs. You catch one and he’s literally coughing up eggs, spilling right out of his mouth.
MC. And for your clients, this is the easiest time to catch a lot of fish?
KB. Yes, this is the time of the season when everyone’s catching fish, again, 30 to 60 rainbows a day, up to thirty inches and weighing as much as ten to twelve pounds.
MC. Okay, the sockeye are everywhere, salmon eggs cover the bottom of the river, flowing downstream, and the rainbows are gorging themselves silly. Let’s talk about technique.
KB. Well, as a rule we don’t use indicators or bobbers because we want the egg to drag bottom. We tie on an egg pattern, a plastic bead. The bead sits an inch or so up from the hook. We add a little weight. The amount depends on the flows. We cast a little upstream, getting the egg down, bouncing along the bottom, over rocks, just like the real thing.
And these egg patterns are pink, red, cream, orange, some are dead, some are still alive. We try to cover what nature is covering. Even with eggs, we’re literally trying to match the hatch, imitating the various stages of the eggs in the river. If you swing by Sportsman’s Warehouse in Anchorage, you’ll get an idea of all the many eggs we use.
MC. Now since you don’t use indicators or bobbers, what are you looking for, as far as knowing you have a strike? Are you waiting for a tug? Are you watching your line?
KB. We’re watching for anything out of the ordinary. That anything can be as subtle as your line moving an inch to the right. Whether it’s a fly line or monofilament, you’re watching for any odd movement of line. And that’s when you set the hook.
MC. What about sight fishing, actually spotting a fish?
KB. We do it. That’s the best. Now a guide, at least a good one, can sight fish all day. We’re used to looking into moving water and spotting the odd movement, a shadow, a fin, a tail. We tell our clients not to look for the whole fish, but instead that oddness, again a fin, a tail. Our clients have to get used to that and some are better at it than others. If you’re with us on the river for say a week or so, you’ll get better at it. And a whole new world of fishing suddenly opens up to you.
MC. Takes us through a scenario of a client hooking into a nice, fat rainbow trout. Let’s say you can’t see the fish.
KB. You cast upstream, try to get the drag out, you mend line a little, but there’s also over-mending, and you don’t want that because that moves the egg artificially. You’re after a natural drift, just like a real egg. And it doesn’t matter if you’re fly fishing or spin fishing. As your egg drifts downstream you give line because you want your egg to keep on going. You’re watching for any unnatural movement in your line.
Suddenly, I’ll say, “Set the hook.” Very often the client doesn’t know he’s got a fish on. Why? Well, he hasn’t noticed that the line jumped. Sometimes that movement is very, very subtle. If that line moves just an inch or two either way, set the hook. Boom, you’ve got a fish on. Now an experienced fisherman, he’s notices it right away, almost feels it before it happens. But for most fishermen it takes a while to learn that. And of course, some never do.
So if you can’t see the fish, you’re watching line. Again, your line moves in any unnatural way, even an inch to either side, set the hook.
MC. That’s not much leeway.
KB. No it’s not. The trout has found himself a crease, where the eggs are drifting to him, either directly at him or to the left or right a few inches. He’s in a great feeding lane and that’s all the work he needs to do.
MC. What about when the fish is clearly seen?
KB. Good question. Sometimes you can see the fish clearly because either you’ve spotted a tail, or a moving shadow, whatever, or it’s literally swimming right in front of you. You cast a little upstream and drift down to him. But still, sometimes the bite is so subtle. The client will be watching the fish and the fish will move one or two inches to the right or left and I’ll say, “Set the hook.” Often the response is “For what?”
MC. So even if you don’t feel the strike, you’re setting the hook simply on the fish’s movement?
KB. Right. A trout is an efficient eater. He’s not going to exert more energy than he has too. He only had to move one or two inches to grab that egg. That subtlety takes a little getting used to. He only moved over an inch to take an egg.
MC. Talk a little more about a natural drift.
KB. Let’s say you throw a stick into the water, it floats downstream. Now there’s no reason why that stick should move oddly to the left or right or even suddenly sink a bit. If it does neither of these things it’s achieved a natural drift. That’s what you’re after with every cast. If you can see the trout, great, drift right to him, if he makes an odd move to the side, set the hook. If you’re watching line only, think of that stick. There’s no natural reason your line should make a move like that, unless you’ve got a fish on. And if the line suddenly starts moving upstream, well that’s physically impossible, unless you’ve got a fish on.
MC. Sounds simple enough and logical too.
KB. You’d be surprised (laughs).
MC. So anything unnatural set the hook.
KB. Set the hook. And it doesn’t have to be a big set, just pick your rod tip up a little.
MC. So nothing dramatic, just raise your rod tip?
KB. Two reasons, one, if you don’t have a fish on you can just lower your rod and continue the drift. And two, they’re very small hooks, so it doesn’t take much to set them. In fact, the fish practically sets the hook himself. And then he takes off, and I mean fast.
MC. Okay, the hook’s set, then what happens?
KB. All hell breaks loose. I tell our clients their job isn’t to bring in that rainbow. Their job is to bring that rainbow under control. Remember, you’re not only fighting a big fish that’s full of piss and vinegar, you’re also fighting the current. 70% of the rainbows we catch are over twenty-two inches, and those are wild, not farm raised. That rainbow might take off downstream and then suddenly, before you know it, he’s turned around and running right at you. You’d better be good at stripping line or you better be good at running backwards.
MC. I bet that gets their attention.
KB. Again, you’d be surprised (laughs). But yes, most of the time it does. And it’s true, a twenty-two inch wild Alaska rainbow trout is going to fight for all he’s worth. And the clients really take notice after they’ve lost the first one or two. I’ve seen a trout take off down river, strip line, jump twice, then throw the hook before the client knew what hit him.
MC. So when exactly does all this mayhem take place?
KB. As soon as the trout feels the sting of the hook. He doesn’t like it. He knows it’s not food. It could be something dangerous and he doesn’t want anything to do with it.
MC. So are you suggesting you better have patience those first few seconds?
KB. No, not patience. I’m saying you better not freak out. It happens so fast, so your job is to make sure that line doesn’t get tangled because that line is whipping through your fingers, and that Rainbow is running and jumping and stripping line, more than any steelhead I’ve ever seen jump and run. You can’t stop him, not yet, so all you can do is get him under control.
MC. That’s a classic, “don’t freak out.”
KB. Don’t freak out. What happens is you’ve got all this line out and all of sudden a fish bites and he’s another twenty yards downstream before you even realize he’s running. Your line’s flying all over the place and you have to get that line under control. Too loose and you’ve got tangles and more tangles. Too hard and you’ve just ripped a hook out of the mouth of a trophy rainbow trout. So yeah, don’t freak out.
MC. I’m guessing a lot of your clients have never caught a rainbow trout that big before, or for that matter, any fish that big.
KB. Right, for most of them this is their first time catching a trophy fish. I’ve seen clients set the hook and when that fish jumps out of the water, just stand there astonished. They’ve never seen anything like it, and for sure they’ve never hooked anything that big. They freeze. And in that moment the fish is gone.
So in those first moments of hysteria you need to stay calm. The fish is going to do what he’s going to do and you just have to ride with it and let him run. Twice, I’ve had big rainbows take me down to my backing. So cool and calm is the rule.
MC. So how do we actually land these big rainbows?
KB. I tell the client, let him run, just let him run. Eventually, he’ll get tired. So at first just get him in the current and keep him there. The longer you hold him in the current the more tired he’s going to get. Once he gets tired you start coaxing him, not toward you but toward the shore. So we coax him to the shore and we get the net ready, but I tell the client, the moment he sees that net he’s going to run again. And this may happen three or four more times. So have line ready to give him. And then we coax him back into the current again, and eventually to shore again. And then see if he’s got another run in him.
MC. Can you give us an average time of how long it takes to land one of these big rainbows?
KB. It can take anywhere from five minutes to ten minutes, depending on the fish. The main point is if you’re in an area with a very strong current and hook a real big fish you just have hang in there and keep cool. Sometimes that pull against the current will help throw the hook.
MC. So when you hook him, don’t freak out and then know it’s going to take some time to land him.
KB. That’s pretty much it. Don’t freak out, and then get ready for the ride.
MC. Anything else you care to add?
KB. You know, it all sounds pretty complicated at times, especially if you’re a novice, and it can be, but even if you lose a bunch of big trout the experience and the learning curve are still a hell of a lot of fun.
MC. Okay, your final interview question: If you could order a pizza on any water in the world, what kind of pizza would it be and where would you be fishing?
KB. That’s a funny question. Let’s see, okay. It’d be white pizza from Fascati’s Pizza in Brooklyn, New York. And I’d be fishing for smallmouth bass on the Shenandoah River in Virginia.
MC. Thanks a lot Ken and we wish you the best of luck with “Season on the Edge.”
KB. My pleasure. And thanks for the well wishes.
“Season on the Edge” website: www.seasonontheedge.com
Ken’s photography website: www.dancefish.com
Rainbow Bay Resort, the lodge Ken works out of in Alaska: www.rbrlodge.com